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spark the spark plug
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k1ratacul
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Onion St 69 apartment 3

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:37 am    Post subject: spark the spark plug Reply with quote

Hi everybody! I just got an ignition coil and a spark plug..
now i need to make the spark plug spark continuously.. so i build a little circuit with the awesome NE555, but it didn't worked at all....
Have you got any suggestions? thanks!
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Nginuity
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Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 224
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the ignition coil is only the part that ramps up the power to make the spark, which you can directly connect to the spark plug without the distributor using a plug wire. Are you certain you are getting power to the coil?

There are two general ways a spark plug will fire:

1) A distributor passes the power from the ignition coil
2) The ECM computer controls the timing and fires into a set of coil packs directly.

What kind of vehicle did this one come out of? As a quick and dirty test to make sure you are getting power, clip a test light to ground, and stick the probe into the center. (Dont do it for long, the test light wires generally wont hold up to that kind of amperage for long)

Might I ask to see the schematic of the 555 you made?
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k1ratacul
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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Location: Onion St 69 apartment 3

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the sparks plug works great when i connect the ignition coil to the power source without the ne555.... I took the ignition coil from a local demolition center....
I used this circuit http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555fig12.gif , but i changed the values to make a continous spark!
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Nginuity
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Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What values are you using?

Did you make sure the output was high enough for the input of the igniton coil? If it were me, I would feed the pulses into a relay.

I would also like to know what the spark looks like when it is hooked up to the power source without the circuit?

Did you somehow test the circuit to make sure it works?

Sorry for all the questions, all in good troubleshooting.
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k1ratacul
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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Location: Onion St 69 apartment 3

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

these are the values R1: 1 Kohm R2: 2 Kohm C1: 120uF
for what i know the ne555 doesn't affect the output! it only compsumes 25 mW!

The spark looks like a very bright small red fire

I did test the circuit with my multimeter, but i think the frequency is too hight (0,1 s circuit open, 0,2 s circuit closed), so the output flicks! (my tester is very cheap!)
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Nginuity
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really sounds like you arent getting enough power to the coil....Rightfully so, I don't think you can supply the required current to the coil from the circuitry. I really think a relay will work better. You should be able to get that at a junkyard too if you cannot find one elsewhere.
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k1ratacul
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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Location: Onion St 69 apartment 3

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, but how I can make the relay turn on ad off continuously?
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Nginuity
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How often do you want the continuous spark to happen?

Just feed it the pulses from your 555 timer circuit output. Most general purpose relays have 4 pins you would use. Here is a diagram of kind of how the pinouts to a relay work:



pin 30 goes to the positive on your 12 volt battery (or whatever you were using for power)

pin 87A (the Normally Open side) goes to your ignition coil

pin 85 goes to the output of the 555 timer circuit, and pin 86 to ground (I am not completely sure of this, maybe someone can back me up?


All's a relay is is an electrically operated switch. What is happening here, is that you are energizing the relay coil with your low power from the 555 timer circuit (allows you to use low amperage board components). When the coil is energized, it pulls the NC side of the switch to the NO side (pin 87A), completing the circuit, sending power to the ignition coil, and firing the spark plug. Once the timer pulse ends, the switch goes back to the pin 87 position (Normally closed). The cycle will repeat for each pulse sent.

Switching the wire from pin 87A to pin 87 will allow the spark plug to spark until the timer interuprs it, acting in reverse of what was explained above.

If you are unsure of how to hook the timer up to the relay, I would be happy to walk you through it.
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k1ratacul
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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Location: Onion St 69 apartment 3

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nginuity wrote:

Switching the wire from pin 87A to pin 87 will allow the spark plug to spark until the timer interuprs it, acting in reverse of what was explained above.

I know what is a relay Wink (when i was a student I used lots of relays and stepper motors! but now i'm a bit rusted Very Happy )
I don't think that the spark plug will spark continuously, because the ignition coil when the circuit is closed will charge itself, and when the circuit is open the charge will be sent to the spark plug... if the circuit is always closed(or always open, of course), the spak plug will never spark!
in fact if you use a switch to connect the ignition coil to the power source, the spark plug won't spark, (i don't know why....) but if you rub a raw wire on the power source pin, you'll get great sparks! (the more fast you rub, the more big spark you'll get)..

and yes.. i need the circuit to attach the relay to the ne555 Embarassed
i did these suppositions: generally a motor when you don't accelerate runs at 800 rpm, so the spark plug sparks 400 times in one minute (in bicilindric motors, i don't know how many times spark in monocilinders) wich means 6,6 sparks/second.....

yes, i need this circuit to make my moped to work Very Happy
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k1ratacul
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pls help me! Crying or Very sad
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Alan
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006
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Location: Winnipeg, MB

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

k1ratacul wrote:
Nginuity wrote:

Switching the wire from pin 87A to pin 87 will allow the spark plug to spark until the timer interuprs it, acting in reverse of what was explained above.


yes, i need this circuit to make my moped to work Very Happy


Are you actually wanting to have this 555 circuit activate the spark plug to operate your moped?
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k1ratacul
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Onion St 69 apartment 3

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan wrote:
k1ratacul wrote:
Nginuity wrote:

Switching the wire from pin 87A to pin 87 will allow the spark plug to spark until the timer interuprs it, acting in reverse of what was explained above.


yes, i need this circuit to make my moped to work Very Happy


Are you actually wanting to have this 555 circuit activate the spark plug to operate your moped?

sure, why not? Wink
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Alan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

k1ratacul wrote:
Alan wrote:
k1ratacul wrote:
Nginuity wrote:

Switching the wire from pin 87A to pin 87 will allow the spark plug to spark until the timer interuprs it, acting in reverse of what was explained above.


yes, i need this circuit to make my moped to work Very Happy


Are you actually wanting to have this 555 circuit activate the spark plug to operate your moped?

sure, why not? Wink


Well, the spark plug must fire at specific times (when the fuel air mixture has been compressed and is ready to be ignited). You can't simply fire it when you want. Confused That is why the ignition timing system is mechanically connected to the engine. Smile

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine1.htm
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Nginuity
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, no wonder it isnt working Smile
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k1ratacul
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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Location: Onion St 69 apartment 3

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's called mechanical ignition (with the distributor), what i'm going to make is called electronic ignition!
from my book:

Quote:
The electronic ignition, to simplify, uses only the point as sensor of phase (that is to understand whether to send the discharge).
That circuit foresees a system of stabilization of the feeding, that doesn't hear again any starts of the battery, and to the normal capacitive discharge of one gruppetto of his of condensers, it combines an inductive discharge, immediately following. In substance in the moment in which it ends the capacitive discharge the tide you/he/she is sent through a transformer of elevation, and of there to a pair of mosfets that send forth a discharge of negative sign (contrarily to the capacitive one, that is positive). In practice to every lighting, a tronchetto of sinusoide is sent to the spool: before +250V, then -250V. Which favors some the job of the spool, besides that it would work to alternating current of his, but commonly on the autos you/he/she is used to impulses (or with so that quadre).
It doesn't calculate, that is, the advance in base to the regime, knowing the position of the tree motor (as it happens on the modern autos), but it limits him to use the point, opportunely influenced by the rubber band of correction of the coil ignition, for temporizzare the discharge. And, unlike the condenser, is not in parallel to the point, on the contrary in series. It is set between point and spool.
With this system through the point it passes only a contact of mass used to the purpose of signal, because the whole necessary tension to the discharge the circuit directly withdraws it from the battery.



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